Agency Bytes Podcast
Agency Bytes is a video podcast series that packs a ton of important agency information on one topic, from one expert into a 25-minute brief.
Why 25 minutes?
Because who has the attention span for much more these days, and you can squeeze in a listen between meetings with time for a bathroom break or coffee refill before your next meeting.
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Ep 107 – Blair Enns, Win Without Pitching – The Fourth Conversation
In episode 107 of Agency Bytes, I sit down with Blair Enns, founder of Win Without Pitching and author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and The Four Conversations. If you’ve heard Blair on other shows—or are one of the many who’ve followed his work for years—you might think you’ve heard it all. Not this time. In this conversation, we go beyond the usual talking points and uncover insights he’s never shared before.
Blair opens up about the real mindset shifts creative professionals need to make if they want to stop selling like vendors and start showing up as experts. We break down the Four Conversations model, what most agency owners still get wrong about pricing, and how to rewrite the dynamics of the sales process to work in your favor.
We also explore why repetition beats inspiration, how to protect your power in client engagements, and what Blair believes is the single biggest opportunity for agencies right now—even in a time of AI disruption and economic uncertainty. If you want to charge more, pitch less, and finally own your value—this episode brings the fire.
Key Bytes
• Blair Enns emphasizes the importance of lifestyle choices in career decisions.
• The Win Without Pitching Manifesto serves as a foundational text for creative professionals.
• Sales should be viewed as a series of conversations rather than a pitch.
• Pricing is a critical area for agencies to improve profitability.
• Repetition in learning is essential for mastery of sales techniques.
• Creative professionals often struggle with the mindset of being a salesperson.
• The Four Conversations provides a framework for navigating sales effectively.
• Surviving economic uncertainty is crucial for agency success.
• Agencies should focus on their unique expertise to stand out in the market.
• Building strong client relationships is key to successful sales.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Blair Enns and His Journey
02:59 The Catalyst for Change: Lifestyle Choices
06:00 The Birth of Win Without Pitching
09:06 Understanding the Win Without Pitching Manifesto
12:12 The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise
17:54 Lessons Learned from Coaching Agencies
20:50 The Importance of Repetition in Learning
25:56 Navigating Sales Conversations Effectively
31:59 Mindset Shifts for Creative Professionals
35:05 Opportunities and Challenges Ahead for Agencies
Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching and the author of three books on selling and pricing for expert advisors and practitioners, including the brand new The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise.
A former advertising professional and consultant, Blair launched Win Without Pitching in 2002 to help creative professionals learn to win more business at higher prices without giving their services away for free in a pitch. His selling philosophy and pricing strategies resonated beyond the advertising and design professions to the point where today Win Without Pitching serves expert advisors and practitioners around the world in over a dozen professions, including finance, marketing, consulting, engineering and healthcare.
Blair also co-hosts, along with David C. Baker, the popular podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship.
Contact Blair: winwithoutpitching.com
Ep 082 – Chris Martinez, Bloom Partners – Operational Underdogs
In episode 082, I sit down with Chris Martinez, CEO and founder of Bloom Partners, who shares his journey from building a successful marketing agency to transitioning into management consulting. Chris dives into the importance of data-driven strategies and setting clear KPIs for each department, emphasizing how these metrics fuel growth. We discuss the impact of AI on the industry, and Chris encourages agency owners to embrace the new possibilities it brings. He also talks about the critical role of personal fulfillment in business success—how finding joy in all areas of life directly boosts both individual and company performance.
Key Takeaways
• Set clear KPIs for each department in your agency and track them using simple tools like Google Sheets.
• Embrace AI and leverage its capabilities to improve efficiency and productivity in your agency.
• Focus on personal fulfillment in physical health, mental health, relationships, and business to achieve overall success.
• The business is a reflection of you, so ensure that other areas of your life are in balance for optimal performance.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:08 Building a Marketing Agency and Transitioning to Management Consulting
05:54 Data-Driven Strategies and Clear KPIs
09:00 Embracing AI in the Agency Industry
12:56 The Importance of Personal Fulfillment in Business
Chris Martinez, CEO and Founder of BLOOMAgency.io, has turned his passion for helping underdogs into a thriving business, growing his company from zero to millions in revenue. Recognized with a 2021 Stevie Award for Minority-Owned Business of the Year, Chris also hosts the popular podcast Operation Agency Freedom. He is the author of four books, including the Amazon Bestseller It’s Not JUST A Website, and his latest release, Facts Not Feelings, offers insights on scaling a marketing agency with data-driven strategies.
Contact Chris:
Ep 081 – David C. Baker, Punctuation – Preparing to Sell Your Agency
In episode 081, I sit down with David C. Baker, a renowned consultant, author, and speaker in the advertising agency world. We explore David's journey from grad school to founding his consultancy, Punctuation, and later bringing his son into the business. David shares key traits that drive successful agencies—courage, discipline, strategic positioning, and effective team management. We discuss business resets, lead generation, and the science behind agency positioning, along with the advantages of running an agency with future acquisition in mind. Beyond business, David talks about his personal passions like motorcycling, woodworking, and photography. Tune in for valuable insights into managing and scaling a creative agency.
Key Takeaways
• Courage and discipline are key traits for agency leaders
• Positioning is crucial for agency success and requires testing and refinement
• Running an agency as if you're going to sell it can lead to better overall performance
• Woodworking, motorcycle racing, and photography are David's hobbies
• Stop things that no longer serve you and simplify your life
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:07 The Importance of Courage and Discipline in Agency Leadership
06:29 The Process of Positioning and Testing
11:17 Keys to Making an Agency Attractive for Sale
15:16 David's Hobbies: Woodworking, Motorcycle Racing, and Photography
18:20 Advice for Agency Owners: Stop and Simplify
David C. Baker is an author, speaker, and advisor to entrepreneurial creatives worldwide. He has written 6 books, advised 1,000+ firms, and keynoted conferences in 30+ countries. His work has been discussed in the Wall Street Journal, Fast Company, Forbes, USA Today, BusinessWeek, CBS News, Newsweek, AdWeek, and Inc. Magazine. He lives in Nashville, TN. His two most recent books are at http://www.expertise.is and https://www.tradecraft.is His work has also been featured in the NY Times, where he was recently referred to as “the expert’s expert”. He co-hosts the most listened to podcast in the creative services field (2Bobs).
Contact David:
Ep 080 – Kevin Rapp, Ultra Friends – No Free Work
In episode 080, I had a great conversation with Kevin Rapp, co-founder and chief creative officer of Ultra Friends. We dive into the exploitation of creatives and the crucial role of valuing creativity in business. Kevin shares his journey from working in agencies and studios to going in-house at a fast-growing startup, where he learned to focus not just on the craft, but on delivering real value to the business.
We discuss why creatives should stop pitching for free and start advocating for the true worth of their work. Kevin’s key takeaway? Understand and confidently articulate the immense value that creativity brings to the table.
This episode is a must-listen for any creative professional looking to elevate their impact and take control of their worth in the business world!
Key Takeaways
• Creatives need to shift their focus from the craft alone to delivering value to the business.
• Pitching for free devalues creativity and sets an unhealthy dynamic in client relationships.
• Understanding and articulating the true value of creativity is crucial for success.
• Advocating for fair compensation and valuing creativity leads to better career opportunities and financial growth.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:30 Transitioning from Agency to In-House Startup
06:09 Shifting the Focus to Value and Business Impact
09:55 Starting Ultra Friends and Optimizing Creative Content
15:05 The Importance of Not Pitching for Free
20:59 The Devaluation of Creativity and Self-Worth
26:00 Setting the Tone and Advocating for Fair Compensation
31:53 Understanding and Articulating the True Value of Creativity
Kevin is the co-founder and Chief Creative Officer of the creative agency Ultra Friends. He's an accomplished creative leader with almost two decades of experience in the field. And he's built a mild reputation for himself by shouting into the internet void on Linkedin.
