In episode 107 of Agency Bytes, I sit down with Blair Enns, founder of Win Without Pitching and author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and The Four Conversations. If you’ve heard Blair on other shows—or are one of the many who’ve followed his work for years—you might think you’ve heard it all. Not this time. In this conversation, we go beyond the usual talking points and uncover insights he’s never shared before.

Blair opens up about the real mindset shifts creative professionals need to make if they want to stop selling like vendors and start showing up as experts. We break down the Four Conversations model, what most agency owners still get wrong about pricing, and how to rewrite the dynamics of the sales process to work in your favor.

We also explore why repetition beats inspiration, how to protect your power in client engagements, and what Blair believes is the single biggest opportunity for agencies right now—even in a time of AI disruption and economic uncertainty. If you want to charge more, pitch less, and finally own your value—this episode brings the fire.

Key Bytes
• Blair Enns emphasizes the importance of lifestyle choices in career decisions.
• The Win Without Pitching Manifesto serves as a foundational text for creative professionals.
• Sales should be viewed as a series of conversations rather than a pitch.
• Pricing is a critical area for agencies to improve profitability.
• Repetition in learning is essential for mastery of sales techniques.
• Creative professionals often struggle with the mindset of being a salesperson.
• The Four Conversations provides a framework for navigating sales effectively.
• Surviving economic uncertainty is crucial for agency success.
• Agencies should focus on their unique expertise to stand out in the market.
• Building strong client relationships is key to successful sales.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Blair Enns and His Journey
02:59 The Catalyst for Change: Lifestyle Choices
06:00 The Birth of Win Without Pitching
09:06 Understanding the Win Without Pitching Manifesto
12:12 The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise
17:54 Lessons Learned from Coaching Agencies
20:50 The Importance of Repetition in Learning
25:56 Navigating Sales Conversations Effectively
31:59 Mindset Shifts for Creative Professionals
35:05 Opportunities and Challenges Ahead for Agencies

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching and the author of three books on selling and pricing for expert advisors and practitioners, including the brand new The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise.

A former advertising professional and consultant, Blair launched Win Without Pitching in 2002 to help creative professionals learn to win more business at higher prices without giving their services away for free in a pitch. His selling philosophy and pricing strategies resonated beyond the advertising and design professions to the point where today Win Without Pitching serves expert advisors and practitioners around the world in over a dozen professions, including finance, marketing, consulting, engineering and healthcare.

Blair also co-hosts, along with David C. Baker, the popular podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship.

Contact Blair: winwithoutpitching.com

In episode 106 of Agency Bytes, I chat with Lisa Colantuono, president of AAR Partners and a 25-year veteran in agency-client matchmaking (though she hates that word!). If you’re tired of wasting time on endless pitch decks, spec work, and one-sided RFPs, this episode is a must-listen.

Lisa shares what really matters to brands during the agency search process—and how agencies can proactively position themselves to win more work without chasing every lead. We dive into how to build trust that leads to long-term relationships, how to get your agency noticed through smart PR, and why your creative work still needs to deliver real impact. Lisa also drops actionable advice on reputation-building, client retention, and what it really takes to stand out in a crowded agency landscape.

Whether you’re running a small shop or a growing firm, Lisa’s insights are full of practical steps to help you stay relevant, get on the right shortlists, and keep your agency’s name in the room—even when you’re not.

Key Bytes

• Streamlining the agency review process is essential—both for marketers and agencies trying to avoid wasted time and energy.

• Marketer-led reviews now make up 85% of the search landscape—agencies need to understand how to stand out in this evolving dynamic.

• Trust and relationships are everything. People buy from people they trust, and lasting partnerships are built on emotional connection.

• Agencies must treat themselves like their number one client. Prioritize your own marketing, just like you would for your best-paying account.

• Referrals, recognition, and press coverage are key to visibility—smart PR can put your agency on a brand’s radar before the pitch even starts.

• Great creative still wins. No amount of charm or strategy can replace standout work that delivers results.

• Proactivity beats complacency. The biggest reason agencies lose clients? They stop showing up with ideas.

• Personalized outreach beats “spray and pray.” Insightful, relevant communication gets attention—generic blasts get ignored.

• Your network defines your success. The company you keep, the connections you nurture—they’re all part of the relationship-driven business we’re in.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Lisa Colantuono

01:44 Reinventing the Agency Search Process

04:21 Streamlining the Review Process

08:11 Trends in the Marketing Industry

12:26 Building Trust and Relationships in Agencies

18:10 The Importance of Reputation and Press Coverage

23:28 The Power of Recognition in Agency Work

25:06 The Importance of Account Management

26:39 Complacency: The Silent Account Killer

28:07 Proactivity in Client Relationships

29:33 Building Trust Through Networking

30:56 Emotional Connections with Brands

32:55 The Value of Insightful Communication

35:05 Understanding Client Pain Points

39:19 The Comprehensive Marketing Approach

40:09 Personal Insights and Life Lessons

Lisa Colantuono is the President of AAR Partner. With nearly 25 years of experience, Lisa has helped marketers like Ancestry, Subaru, and Panera Bread connect with the right agencies to drive meaningful results. She’s a pioneer in modernizing the agency search process, the author of @AARLisa: New Biz in 140 Characters (or Less), and the host of the On Purpose podcast. Lisa is passionate about building impactful partnerships and shaping the future of the marketing industry.

Contact Lisa:http://www.aarpartners.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-colantuono-aar/

In episode 097 of Agency Bytes, I had the pleasure of speaking with Matthew Fox, a project leader, trainer, and operations consultant who specializes in conscious leadership and helping teams work better together.

Matthew opened up about his personal journey with imposter syndrome and how it led him to dive deep into self-development. Over the years, he’s explored frameworks like The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership and the Drama Triangle, which have shaped how he approaches leadership and team dynamics.

One of the biggest takeaways from our conversation? Project managers often spot cultural issues before leadership does. If your projects are struggling, it’s probably not just an execution problem—it’s a reflection of your agency’s culture

We also dove into the importance of self-care for agency owners—something too many of us neglect. Matthew shared how shifting from reactive, fear-based leadership to solution-focused, conscious leadership can improve team morale, retention, and overall agency success.

This was an insightful conversation, and I know agency owners will take a lot from it. If you’re stuck in survival mode, it might be time to rethink how you lead.

In episode 096 of Agency Bytes, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jason Kramer, founder and CEO of Cultivize, about how to improve the sales process through better lead nurturing and CRM strategies. We covered topics like identifying and converting leads, picking the right CRM tools, and the mindset shifts that make CRM usage more effective. Jason shared some great insights on evaluating past marketing efforts, making sense of key metrics, and positioning agencies for success. He also introduced some exciting tools and resources from Cultivize, including a Google Sheets-based CRM system called Profit Path, which helps businesses track leads and marketing expenses more effectively.

Key Bytes

• Cultivize focuses on helping businesses identify, nurture, and convert leads.

• Proper CRM implementation requires ongoing adjustments and strategy.

• Many companies jump into technology without understanding their needs.

• Evaluating past marketing efforts is crucial for future success.

• Metrics should inform decisions, not just provide data.

• Agencies often struggle with self-marketing due to proximity to their own business.

• Positioning and niche marketing are essential for agency success.

• New tools like Profit Path can simplify lead tracking and marketing costs.

• Behavioral changes are necessary for effective CRM usage.

• Asking for help can accelerate business growth. 

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cultivize and Sales Optimization

05:55 Choosing the Right CRM Tools

11:58 Evaluating Past Marketing Efforts

17:54 Marketing for Agencies: The Importance of Positioning

24:04 Rapid Fire Questions and Final Thoughts

Jason Kramer is the founder and CEO of Cultivize, a consulting firm dedicated to improving lead nurturing and CRM implementation. With more than two decades of experience, Jason has collaborated with both global and local brands to help align marketing and sales efforts. His expertise lies in optimizing sales processes, evaluating underperforming marketing campaigns, and fostering better integration between marketing and sales teams.

Contact Jason: 

https://cultivize.com/learnmore/

Afterthelead.com - Code “AgencyBytes” to save $50

https://cultivize.com/profit-path-sales-tool/

In episode 095 of Agency Bytes, I’m joined by Chip Griffin, founder of the Small Agency Growth Alliance (SAGA). With over 30 years of experience as an agency owner and entrepreneur, Chip shares how small PR, marketing, and creative agency owners can build businesses they truly love.

We dig into some of agency owners' pitfalls, including why chasing “copycat goals” and outdated benchmarks often leads to burnout, and why focusing on profit and personal satisfaction is key. Chip also breaks down his “floor-to-ceiling” pricing model, the importance of time tracking, and how finding focus (a.k.a. niching) can make your agency more efficient and profitable. Plus, we discuss how owners can step back from the grind and take control of their day-to-day.

If you’re ready to rethink your approach to running your agency, this episode is packed with actionable tips to help you grow sustainably and love what you do. Tune in now!

Key Bytes

• Commit to building a business you want to own.

• Define personal goals to shape your agency.

• Focus on profit, not just revenue or headcount.

• Time tracking is essential for understanding costs.

• Pricing should be based on project budgets and value.

• Finding focus helps improve efficiency and results.

• Agency owners often work too many hours on the wrong tasks.

• Control your day to enhance satisfaction.

• Selling an agency is often not a life-changing event.

• Life is too short to be miserable in your work.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Growth

06:36 The Importance of Time Tracking

12:51 Pricing Strategies for Agencies

19:23 Common Pain Points for Agency Owners

25:19 Rapid Fire Questions and Final Thoughts

As the founder of the Small Agency Growth Alliance (SAGA), Chip Griffin helps small PR and marketing agency owners build businesses that they want to own. He works with them to grow profits, eliminate overwork, and improve their overall satisfaction.

As an experienced entrepreneur and agency owner himself, Chip shares the wisdom of his successes and the lessons from his failures. He understands the challenges and opportunities that face agency owners because he sat in the same chair and faced similar decisions.

Chip joined his first agency 30 years ago as a Junior Account Executive and has had an appreciation for the highs and lows these firms experience ever since.

Contact Chip:

www.smallagencygrowth.com

linkedin.com/in/chipgriffin

In episode 094 of Agency Bytes, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Chris Dubois, a seasoned marketing expert and non-founder CEO. Chris shares his fascinating journey from being an infantry officer to leading a successful agency that not only got recognized as an Inc 5000 honoree but also earned the prestigious Two Comma Club award. During our conversation, Chris dives deep into the Dynamic Agency OS, his framework for helping agencies achieve alignment and growth. Key areas of focus from the podcast include:

• Transformational Leadership: How Chris advanced from head of operations to CEO and his insights on effective leadership.

• Strategic Specialization: The importance of niching based on problem-solving and creating differentiated offers.

• Team Optimization: Evaluating and leveraging team strengths to maintain high standards and improve agency culture.

• Quarterly Planning: The benefits of conducting quarterly strategy sessions to stay aligned with client goals and maintain focus.

• Practical Tools: Chris's take on invaluable tools like the AI-powered calendar tool, Motion, and its impact on productivity.

Tune in to explore valuable strategies and actionable insights that can help marketing agency owners thrive and grow their businesses.

Key Bytes

• Chris DuBois transitioned from military service to agency leadership.

• The Dynamic Agency OS framework focuses on operators, offers, and operations.

• Agencies often struggle with client requests outside their expertise.

• Leadership in agencies is about maintaining a strong culture and standard.

• Hiring the right people is crucial for delivering quality work.

• Understanding client needs requires digging deeper into their problems.

• Quarterly strategies help keep clients focused and accountable.

• Soft skills can be broken down into quantifiable hard skills for training.

• Delegation is key for agency owners to focus on growth.

• Networking with other experts can provide valuable insights and solutions.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Chris DuBois

06:32 The Dynamic Agency OS: A Framework for Success

12:51 Navigating Client Requests and Agency Expertise

23:39 Personal Insights and Recommendations from Chris DuBois

Chris DuBois helps marketing agencies build a solid go-to-market foundation while avoiding common roadblocks by aligning business design with personal goals through the Dynamic Agency OS. A former head of operations and non-founder CEO at an agency, he is an INC 5000 honoree and 2 Comma Club awardee.

Contact Chris:

DynamicAgencyOS.com

linkedin.com/in/christopherrdubois

In Episode 093 of Agency Bytes, I sat down with Jonathan Stark — a former software developer turned pricing consultant — to dig into a topic that trips up so many agencies: hourly billing vs. value-based pricing.

Jonathan shared how he made the shift from trading time for money to focusing on the value his work delivers. What started as a few talks with agencies grew into a full-blown movement — writing books, delivering content, and building a thriving community of creative professionals ditching the hourly model.

We talked about why hourly billing holds agencies back, the importance of deeply understanding client needs, and how to craft pricing options that reflect the true value you provide. Jonathan’s insights on uncovering client motivations and taking a more strategic approach to pricing will help you build stronger client relationships and increase profitability.

If you’re tired of being stuck in the “billable hour” mindset, this episode is packed with actionable advice you won’t want to miss.

Key Bytes

• Hourly billing limits income potential.

• Understanding client outcomes is crucial for pricing.

• Scope should be defined after understanding client needs.

• Value-based pricing can lead to higher profits.

• Creating multiple pricing options can attract clients.

• Time tracking is unnecessary in a value-based model.

• Client motivations should drive the sales conversation.

• Different levels of engagement affect pricing strategies.

• Value pricing enhances client relationships.

• Being unique in your offering is essential for success.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ditching Hourly Billing

06:01 Understanding Client Needs and Outcomes

11:45 Creating Pricing Options for Clients

17:47 Uncovering Client Motivations

23:54 The Home Run of Value Pricing

Jonathan Stark is a former software developer who is on a mission to rid the world of hourly billing. He is the author of Hourly Billing Is Nuts, the host of Ditching Hourly, and writes a daily newsletter on pricing for independent professionals.

https://jonathanstark.com/

In Episode 085 of Agency Bytes, I had the privilege of sitting down with Dia Bondi, a communications expert and author of Ask Like an Auctioneer. Dia shares her fascinating journey from the world of auctioneering to becoming a sought-after communication coach.

We dive deep into the art of asking effectively in high-stakes situations, exploring how to embrace rejection, craft impactful asks, and understand the value behind what you're offering. Dia introduces her powerful framework for building and delivering asks with confidence and clarity.

This episode is packed with insights on training your mindset to recognize what you truly want, articulate it boldly, and go after it fearlessly. Dia inspires us to make our dreams known and actively chase our goals with intention and determination.

If you’ve ever struggled with asking for what you deserve, this conversation is one you don’t want to miss!

Key Takeaways

• Asking like an auctioneer involves maximizing potential asks.

• Rejection should be seen as a sign of success, not failure.

• Design your asks based on what you truly want, not what you think you can get.

• Understanding the perceived value is crucial in negotiations.

• The offer inside the ask should benefit both parties involved.

• Mindset plays a significant role in how we approach asking for what we want.

• It's important to communicate your dreams to those around you.

• Asking for more can lead to greater outcomes than anticipated.

• The process of auctioneering provides valuable insights into effective communication.

• Honesty and generosity should guide your asks, not manipulation.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Asking Like an Auctioneer

05:16 The Connection Between Asking and Auctioneering

10:28 Mindset: Embracing Rejection

15:30 Designing Your Ask

20:57 The Offer Inside the Ask

27:03 Final Thoughts and Rapid Fire Questions

Dia Bondi is a Communications Catalyst, Speaker and Author of Ask Like an Auctioneer: How to Ask for More and Get It. She coaches VC-backed founders, executives, and ambitious professionals to speak powerfully when the stakes are high. She helped Rio de Janeiro win the right to host the 2016 Summer Olympics and has helped countless leaders secure hundreds of millions in decisions and resources. A hobbyist fundraising auctioneer, Dia’s TEDx Talk was selected as a TED Editors’ Pick, showcasing how to make the kinds of asks that can change everything.

https://www.diabondi.com/bytesized

In episode 54, I got to sit with Mark Riggs from Pemberton, a consultant and coach for agencies. He shares his insights on shifting from the RFP rat race to building organic growth of existing and new clients. He emphasizes the importance of solving client problems and being proactive in account growth. Mark discusses the need to set expectations with clients from the beginning and continuously communicate and collaborate with them. He also highlights the value of focusing on organic growth and investing the same energy and innovation into existing clients as in winning new business. Mark advises agency owners to start out with defined principles and have patience in their journey. Tune in to hear his top secrets on nailing organic account growth.

Takeaways

Focus on solving client problems and being proactive in account growth.

Set expectations with clients from the beginning and continuously communicate and collaborate with them.

Invest the same energy and innovation into existing clients as in winning new business.

Start out with defined principles and have patience in your agency journey.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

01:04 Shift in Biz Dev and Account Growth

09:36 Setting Expectations and Scoping

14:21 Operational Scoping and Profitability

23:08 Lessons from Marketing During Downturns

25:49 Invaluable Business Advice

Mark is the founder and CEO of Pemberton which is a management consultancy that exists to be the go-to resource for marketing/communications agencies to discover and reveal pathways to organic growth while changing the mindset of an RFP-obsessed industry.

Before starting Pemberton, Mark spent 20-plus years in the agency world working for IPG’s Mullen Lowe, an Ad Age A-List Agency, Taylor, the Holmes Report’s Consumer Agency of the Decade, MWWPR and French/West/Vaughan, the Southeast’s largest independent agency.

Mark has spent a career learning the art of integrated communication developing and executing award-winning consumer programs for brands and companies like Allstate, Honda, Ford, Kimberly-Clark, Polaris, Coke, Diageo, RJ Reynolds, SunTrust Banks, the U.S. Navy, the Atlantic Coast Conference and ESPN, to name a few.

Mark has a reputation as a business-builder and a strategic counselor and has experience in leading client services, insights and planning functions, as well as developing talent. A creative thinker and problem-solver, Mark believes that great thinking can “come from anywhere,” it’s the ability to harness it and leverage it for clients that makes the intellectual property of the agency valuable and an integral part of the marketing mix.

Contact Mark:

www.pembertonworldwide.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmarkriggs/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/pembertonworldwide/

In episode 051, I had the great privilege of speaking with my long-time friend, Debra Rizzi, partner and president of Rizco, a women-owned brand-led marketing agency. We got to discuss the launch and evolution of her agency nearly 25 years ago, the benefits of becoming a certified woman-owned business, and the integration of new tools and processes like EOS. She emphasizes the importance of community involvement and maintaining core values and culture in her agency. She also talks about her day-to-day responsibilities and offers business advice, including the significance of gratitude and self-acknowledgment.

Key Takeaways

• Launching a business can arise from unexpected circumstances and opportunities.

• Becoming a certified woman-owned business can open doors and provide access to funding and resources.

• Integrating new tools and processes can enhance efficiency and effectiveness.

• Community involvement and maintaining core values and culture are essential for long-term success.

• Expressing gratitude and acknowledging personal achievements are important for personal and professional growth.