In episode 107 of Agency Bytes, I sit down with Blair Enns, founder of Win Without Pitching and author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and The Four Conversations. If you’ve heard Blair on other shows—or are one of the many who’ve followed his work for years—you might think you’ve heard it all. Not this time. In this conversation, we go beyond the usual talking points and uncover insights he’s never shared before.

Blair opens up about the real mindset shifts creative professionals need to make if they want to stop selling like vendors and start showing up as experts. We break down the Four Conversations model, what most agency owners still get wrong about pricing, and how to rewrite the dynamics of the sales process to work in your favor.

We also explore why repetition beats inspiration, how to protect your power in client engagements, and what Blair believes is the single biggest opportunity for agencies right now—even in a time of AI disruption and economic uncertainty. If you want to charge more, pitch less, and finally own your value—this episode brings the fire.

Key Bytes
• Blair Enns emphasizes the importance of lifestyle choices in career decisions.
• The Win Without Pitching Manifesto serves as a foundational text for creative professionals.
• Sales should be viewed as a series of conversations rather than a pitch.
• Pricing is a critical area for agencies to improve profitability.
• Repetition in learning is essential for mastery of sales techniques.
• Creative professionals often struggle with the mindset of being a salesperson.
• The Four Conversations provides a framework for navigating sales effectively.
• Surviving economic uncertainty is crucial for agency success.
• Agencies should focus on their unique expertise to stand out in the market.
• Building strong client relationships is key to successful sales.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Blair Enns and His Journey
02:59 The Catalyst for Change: Lifestyle Choices
06:00 The Birth of Win Without Pitching
09:06 Understanding the Win Without Pitching Manifesto
12:12 The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise
17:54 Lessons Learned from Coaching Agencies
20:50 The Importance of Repetition in Learning
25:56 Navigating Sales Conversations Effectively
31:59 Mindset Shifts for Creative Professionals
35:05 Opportunities and Challenges Ahead for Agencies

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching and the author of three books on selling and pricing for expert advisors and practitioners, including the brand new The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise.

A former advertising professional and consultant, Blair launched Win Without Pitching in 2002 to help creative professionals learn to win more business at higher prices without giving their services away for free in a pitch. His selling philosophy and pricing strategies resonated beyond the advertising and design professions to the point where today Win Without Pitching serves expert advisors and practitioners around the world in over a dozen professions, including finance, marketing, consulting, engineering and healthcare.

Blair also co-hosts, along with David C. Baker, the popular podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship.

Contact Blair: winwithoutpitching.com

In episode 106 of Agency Bytes, I chat with Lisa Colantuono, president of AAR Partners and a 25-year veteran in agency-client matchmaking (though she hates that word!). If you’re tired of wasting time on endless pitch decks, spec work, and one-sided RFPs, this episode is a must-listen.

Lisa shares what really matters to brands during the agency search process—and how agencies can proactively position themselves to win more work without chasing every lead. We dive into how to build trust that leads to long-term relationships, how to get your agency noticed through smart PR, and why your creative work still needs to deliver real impact. Lisa also drops actionable advice on reputation-building, client retention, and what it really takes to stand out in a crowded agency landscape.

Whether you’re running a small shop or a growing firm, Lisa’s insights are full of practical steps to help you stay relevant, get on the right shortlists, and keep your agency’s name in the room—even when you’re not.

Key Bytes

• Streamlining the agency review process is essential—both for marketers and agencies trying to avoid wasted time and energy.

• Marketer-led reviews now make up 85% of the search landscape—agencies need to understand how to stand out in this evolving dynamic.

• Trust and relationships are everything. People buy from people they trust, and lasting partnerships are built on emotional connection.

• Agencies must treat themselves like their number one client. Prioritize your own marketing, just like you would for your best-paying account.

• Referrals, recognition, and press coverage are key to visibility—smart PR can put your agency on a brand’s radar before the pitch even starts.

• Great creative still wins. No amount of charm or strategy can replace standout work that delivers results.

• Proactivity beats complacency. The biggest reason agencies lose clients? They stop showing up with ideas.

• Personalized outreach beats “spray and pray.” Insightful, relevant communication gets attention—generic blasts get ignored.

• Your network defines your success. The company you keep, the connections you nurture—they’re all part of the relationship-driven business we’re in.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Lisa Colantuono

01:44 Reinventing the Agency Search Process

04:21 Streamlining the Review Process

08:11 Trends in the Marketing Industry

12:26 Building Trust and Relationships in Agencies

18:10 The Importance of Reputation and Press Coverage

23:28 The Power of Recognition in Agency Work

25:06 The Importance of Account Management

26:39 Complacency: The Silent Account Killer

28:07 Proactivity in Client Relationships

29:33 Building Trust Through Networking

30:56 Emotional Connections with Brands

32:55 The Value of Insightful Communication

35:05 Understanding Client Pain Points

39:19 The Comprehensive Marketing Approach

40:09 Personal Insights and Life Lessons

Lisa Colantuono is the President of AAR Partner. With nearly 25 years of experience, Lisa has helped marketers like Ancestry, Subaru, and Panera Bread connect with the right agencies to drive meaningful results. She’s a pioneer in modernizing the agency search process, the author of @AARLisa: New Biz in 140 Characters (or Less), and the host of the On Purpose podcast. Lisa is passionate about building impactful partnerships and shaping the future of the marketing industry.

Contact Lisa:http://www.aarpartners.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-colantuono-aar/

In episode 105 of Agency Bytes, I’m joined by Ryan Rhoten, founder of The Distilled Brand, who helps entrepreneurs and agency owners develop crystal-clear messaging that actually connects. Ryan shares the structured process he’s refined to help business leaders articulate their value—not with jargon or vague promises, but with messaging that speaks to real human emotion and need.

We dig into his “four O’s” framework, why niching is essential (even if you resist it), and how standardizing your offers can streamline operations, boost profitability, and make your marketing 10x easier. If you’ve ever felt like your agency’s message isn’t landing or you’re reinventing the pitch every time you meet someone new, this episode is for you.

Key Bytes

• Ryan helps entrepreneurs align their internal expertise with external perceptions.

• Messaging should address both objectives and the emotional obstacles clients face.

• The Four O's: Objectives, Obstacles, Objections, and Outcomes are crucial for effective messaging.

• A messaging playbook provides a structured approach to communication across all platforms.

• Niching down helps entrepreneurs become known for their expertise.

• Standardizing offers can lead to increased efficiency and profitability.

• Clear messaging is essential for team alignment and customer understanding.

• Customers are primarily concerned with their own needs, not your company's history.

• Effective messaging should focus on benefits rather than features.

• Incremental improvement is key to long-term success in business.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Guest Ryan Roten

02:26 Understanding Brand Messaging and Positioning

05:44 The Emotional Side of Messaging

09:16 The Four O's of Messaging

12:40 Creating a Messaging Playbook

15:01 The Importance of Niching Down

18:42 Standardizing Offers for Efficiency

20:22 Crafting a Clear Elevator Pitch

22:04 Identifying Red Flags in Messaging

25:05 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts

Have you ever struggled to communicate your expertise in a way that truly resonates? Ryan Rhoten, owner of The Distilled Brand, understands the challenge and has developed the Brand Messaging System to help. As an expert in brand positioning and messaging, Ryan guides his clients through a proven process to distill complex ideas into clear, compelling messages to communicate your brilliance and connect with your audience.

Contact Ryan:

https://thedistilledbrand.com

https://linkedin.com/in/ryanrhoten

In this episode, Wayne Pelletier, founder of Resonant Pixel Co, discusses the process of productizing agency services and the benefits it brings. He shares his journey from being a marketing assistant to launching his own agency and explains why he chose to focus on Squarespace as the platform for his services. Wayne emphasizes the importance of niching down and serving a specific audience, as well as the mindset shift required to transition from a project-based model to a subscription-based model. He also highlights the challenges and rewards of productization and the potential for scalability and growth.

Key Takeaways

• Productizing agency services involves niching down and focusing on a specific audience or platform.

• A subscription-based model can provide more predictable revenue and eliminate the feast and famine cycle of project-based work.

• Choosing the right platform, such as Squarespace, can offer stability, scalability, and the ability to hire predictably for talent.

• Productization requires a mindset shift from being a designer to being a business owner, focusing on access to expertise and lifetime value.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Pronunciation

08:10 Transitioning to a Subscription-Based Model

12:54 The Benefits of Productization and Lifetime Value

23:04 Serving Small Businesses and Providing Relief

In this episode, I had the pleasure of chatting with Jacob Cass from JUST Creative about his remarkable journey from digital nomad and designer to his current roles as an agency owner, educator, and blogger. We delve into how Jacob manages to juggle multiple ventures while maintaining focus and standing out in the industry. His pursuit of creative freedom drives him to embrace new technologies and innovative ideas, such as the AI bots he's developed to support branding efforts for agencies. We also explore topics like affiliate marketing, value-based pricing, marketplace positioning, and more. Tune in for the full conversation and gain insights from Jacob's wealth of experience!

Key Takeaways

Embrace AI in design and see how it can improve your process and productivity.

Diversify your revenue streams to create a more stable and sustainable business.

Consider value-based pricing to reflect the value you bring to clients rather than charging by the hour.

Reflect, recalibrate, and refocus regularly to adapt to changes in the market and set new goals.

Try new tools and don't be afraid to experiment and find what works best for you.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

08:24 The Role of Design in Jacob's Business

23:55 Experimenting with Tools and Embracing Change

Jacob Cass is a brand designer, strategist, educator, podcaster, business coach, community builder and the founder of JUST Creative, a branding & design consultancy that doubles as an industry-leading blog and community.

Jacob helps grow brands strategically and has worked for clients such as Disney, Nintendo and Jerry Seinfeld however he is now focused on bringing this global brand experience to smaller businesses.

For Jacob, design is a lifelong journey of continuously honing his craft, as well as empowering other fellow designers & entrepreneurs to build on theirs, which has allowed him to build a large and loyal following, including his JUST Creative website which has been viewed over 70 million times.

Jacob has spoken at TEDx and been featured in Entrepreneur, Forbes, and a number of high-profile design books including The Best of Logo Lounge Master Series.

Jacob holds a Bachelor of Visual Communication (Graphic Design Major) from The University of Newcastle, Sydney, Australia and a Brand Master Certification from Brand Master Academy, and over 17 years of experience in the industry with multiple awards on his belt.

Jacob co-hosts the JUST Branding Podcast which helps designers & entrepreneurs grow brands.

He also coaches creatives in his Inner Triangle Coaching Program, either 1:1 or in a group mastermind setting. Yahoo! recently declared him as the “Best Brand Coach”.

Jacob also runs the membership community Exponential Creatives which helps creatives grow exponentially.

Jacob is a digital nomad and travels the world now isolated in Sydney with his family of four, while running JUST Creative.

He has visited 88 countries thus far with travel guides on most of them available at his travel blog, JUST Globetrotting.

Contact Justin:

Website: https://justcreative.com

Podcast: https://justcreative.com/podcast

Branding Briefcase Freebie Download: https://brandingbriefcase.com

Newsletter: https://brandingbriefcase.com

With the launch of Season Two of Agency Bytes, I'm thrilled to introduce an extraordinary guest for this momentous occasion – Ilise Benun from Marketing Mentor. Ilise is not only a longtime friend but also someone I've admired for decades. In this episode, I had the privilege of delving into Ilise's invaluable insights on her "Simplest Marketing Plan" and how she guides creative professionals to success by helping them focus and identify their market. We discuss the importance of cultivating a deep, focused niche and Ilise lays out actionable steps to achieve this.

Ilise believes that building your business should be enjoyable and shares her observations on why many agency owners struggle with their marketing efforts due to being too close to their businesses. We dissect the difference between horizontal and vertical niches, exploring how the latter can significantly boost marketing endeavors. Ilise also emphasizes the significance of sub-niches and provides guidance on expanding into new niches.

Furthermore, Ilise outlines her comprehensive program focusing on marketing, money, and mindset, identifying these as key areas of weakness for most creatives. We also challenge the notion that referrals are always beneficial and discuss strategies to overcome complacency in business development.

Tune in to uncover some of the invaluable secrets Ilise has accumulated over her more than 30 years as a creative business coach. This episode is packed with actionable insights and wisdom you won't want to miss!

In this episode, I had the privilege of speaking with Robert Patin, an agency expert and coach from Creative Agency Success. Robert's expertise centers on benchmarks and the comprehensive analysis of agency performance, emphasizing measurable metrics. Together, we explore key metrics that every agency should be monitoring. We delve into the absence of essential systems that many "accidental" agency owners overlook at different stages of their business evolution.

Robert guides us through activities that can optimize agency operations, aiding in the focus on ideal clients and the reasons behind those choices. During our discussion on agency differentiation, Robert candidly points out that most agencies tend to sound alike, offering valuable insights on how to authentically stand out in a crowded market.

In Episode 48, I engaged in an enlightening conversation with Kelly Berrk, a passionate advocate for brand strategy and yoga. We explored Kelly's journey of resetting after experiencing burnout, and the profound impact it had on her creative inspiration following a much-needed period of refocus. Kelly delved into the concept of brand therapy, an integral part of her brand strategy process, influenced by her commitment to self-care and life balance. She shared insights on how these practices serve as tools to connect the dots, helping brands articulate their messages and define their "why" and purpose.

Throughout the episode, Kelly emphasized the importance of exploration and connection with others to identify the common thread that ties together brands and relationships. She encouraged listeners to reflect on how they are fostering connections, practicing empathy, and building bridges to create meaningful openings in both professional and personal spheres.