In episode 107 of Agency Bytes, I sit down with Blair Enns, founder of Win Without Pitching and author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and The Four Conversations. If you’ve heard Blair on other shows—or are one of the many who’ve followed his work for years—you might think you’ve heard it all. Not this time. In this conversation, we go beyond the usual talking points and uncover insights he’s never shared before.

Blair opens up about the real mindset shifts creative professionals need to make if they want to stop selling like vendors and start showing up as experts. We break down the Four Conversations model, what most agency owners still get wrong about pricing, and how to rewrite the dynamics of the sales process to work in your favor.

We also explore why repetition beats inspiration, how to protect your power in client engagements, and what Blair believes is the single biggest opportunity for agencies right now—even in a time of AI disruption and economic uncertainty. If you want to charge more, pitch less, and finally own your value—this episode brings the fire.

Key Bytes
• Blair Enns emphasizes the importance of lifestyle choices in career decisions.
• The Win Without Pitching Manifesto serves as a foundational text for creative professionals.
• Sales should be viewed as a series of conversations rather than a pitch.
• Pricing is a critical area for agencies to improve profitability.
• Repetition in learning is essential for mastery of sales techniques.
• Creative professionals often struggle with the mindset of being a salesperson.
• The Four Conversations provides a framework for navigating sales effectively.
• Surviving economic uncertainty is crucial for agency success.
• Agencies should focus on their unique expertise to stand out in the market.
• Building strong client relationships is key to successful sales.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Blair Enns and His Journey
02:59 The Catalyst for Change: Lifestyle Choices
06:00 The Birth of Win Without Pitching
09:06 Understanding the Win Without Pitching Manifesto
12:12 The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise
17:54 Lessons Learned from Coaching Agencies
20:50 The Importance of Repetition in Learning
25:56 Navigating Sales Conversations Effectively
31:59 Mindset Shifts for Creative Professionals
35:05 Opportunities and Challenges Ahead for Agencies

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching and the author of three books on selling and pricing for expert advisors and practitioners, including the brand new The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise.

A former advertising professional and consultant, Blair launched Win Without Pitching in 2002 to help creative professionals learn to win more business at higher prices without giving their services away for free in a pitch. His selling philosophy and pricing strategies resonated beyond the advertising and design professions to the point where today Win Without Pitching serves expert advisors and practitioners around the world in over a dozen professions, including finance, marketing, consulting, engineering and healthcare.

Blair also co-hosts, along with David C. Baker, the popular podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship.

Contact Blair: winwithoutpitching.com

In episode 106 of Agency Bytes, I chat with Lisa Colantuono, president of AAR Partners and a 25-year veteran in agency-client matchmaking (though she hates that word!). If you’re tired of wasting time on endless pitch decks, spec work, and one-sided RFPs, this episode is a must-listen.

Lisa shares what really matters to brands during the agency search process—and how agencies can proactively position themselves to win more work without chasing every lead. We dive into how to build trust that leads to long-term relationships, how to get your agency noticed through smart PR, and why your creative work still needs to deliver real impact. Lisa also drops actionable advice on reputation-building, client retention, and what it really takes to stand out in a crowded agency landscape.

Whether you’re running a small shop or a growing firm, Lisa’s insights are full of practical steps to help you stay relevant, get on the right shortlists, and keep your agency’s name in the room—even when you’re not.

Key Bytes

• Streamlining the agency review process is essential—both for marketers and agencies trying to avoid wasted time and energy.

• Marketer-led reviews now make up 85% of the search landscape—agencies need to understand how to stand out in this evolving dynamic.

• Trust and relationships are everything. People buy from people they trust, and lasting partnerships are built on emotional connection.

• Agencies must treat themselves like their number one client. Prioritize your own marketing, just like you would for your best-paying account.

• Referrals, recognition, and press coverage are key to visibility—smart PR can put your agency on a brand’s radar before the pitch even starts.

• Great creative still wins. No amount of charm or strategy can replace standout work that delivers results.

• Proactivity beats complacency. The biggest reason agencies lose clients? They stop showing up with ideas.

• Personalized outreach beats “spray and pray.” Insightful, relevant communication gets attention—generic blasts get ignored.

• Your network defines your success. The company you keep, the connections you nurture—they’re all part of the relationship-driven business we’re in.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Lisa Colantuono

01:44 Reinventing the Agency Search Process

04:21 Streamlining the Review Process

08:11 Trends in the Marketing Industry

12:26 Building Trust and Relationships in Agencies

18:10 The Importance of Reputation and Press Coverage

23:28 The Power of Recognition in Agency Work

25:06 The Importance of Account Management

26:39 Complacency: The Silent Account Killer

28:07 Proactivity in Client Relationships

29:33 Building Trust Through Networking

30:56 Emotional Connections with Brands

32:55 The Value of Insightful Communication

35:05 Understanding Client Pain Points

39:19 The Comprehensive Marketing Approach

40:09 Personal Insights and Life Lessons

Lisa Colantuono is the President of AAR Partner. With nearly 25 years of experience, Lisa has helped marketers like Ancestry, Subaru, and Panera Bread connect with the right agencies to drive meaningful results. She’s a pioneer in modernizing the agency search process, the author of @AARLisa: New Biz in 140 Characters (or Less), and the host of the On Purpose podcast. Lisa is passionate about building impactful partnerships and shaping the future of the marketing industry.

Contact Lisa:http://www.aarpartners.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-colantuono-aar/

In episode 54, I got to sit with Mark Riggs from Pemberton, a consultant and coach for agencies. He shares his insights on shifting from the RFP rat race to building organic growth of existing and new clients. He emphasizes the importance of solving client problems and being proactive in account growth. Mark discusses the need to set expectations with clients from the beginning and continuously communicate and collaborate with them. He also highlights the value of focusing on organic growth and investing the same energy and innovation into existing clients as in winning new business. Mark advises agency owners to start out with defined principles and have patience in their journey. Tune in to hear his top secrets on nailing organic account growth.

Takeaways

Focus on solving client problems and being proactive in account growth.

Set expectations with clients from the beginning and continuously communicate and collaborate with them.

Invest the same energy and innovation into existing clients as in winning new business.

Start out with defined principles and have patience in your agency journey.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

01:04 Shift in Biz Dev and Account Growth

09:36 Setting Expectations and Scoping

14:21 Operational Scoping and Profitability

23:08 Lessons from Marketing During Downturns

25:49 Invaluable Business Advice

Mark is the founder and CEO of Pemberton which is a management consultancy that exists to be the go-to resource for marketing/communications agencies to discover and reveal pathways to organic growth while changing the mindset of an RFP-obsessed industry.

Before starting Pemberton, Mark spent 20-plus years in the agency world working for IPG’s Mullen Lowe, an Ad Age A-List Agency, Taylor, the Holmes Report’s Consumer Agency of the Decade, MWWPR and French/West/Vaughan, the Southeast’s largest independent agency.

Mark has spent a career learning the art of integrated communication developing and executing award-winning consumer programs for brands and companies like Allstate, Honda, Ford, Kimberly-Clark, Polaris, Coke, Diageo, RJ Reynolds, SunTrust Banks, the U.S. Navy, the Atlantic Coast Conference and ESPN, to name a few.

Mark has a reputation as a business-builder and a strategic counselor and has experience in leading client services, insights and planning functions, as well as developing talent. A creative thinker and problem-solver, Mark believes that great thinking can “come from anywhere,” it’s the ability to harness it and leverage it for clients that makes the intellectual property of the agency valuable and an integral part of the marketing mix.

Contact Mark:

www.pembertonworldwide.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmarkriggs/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/pembertonworldwide/