Ep 039 – Steve Jeffreys - Make Your Shift
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Featuring: Steve Jeffreys - Make Your Shift
In this episode I got to speak to Steve Jeffreys from Your Shift from across the pond. We dug into how his big agency experience led to his big shift and why he made the life changing shift of focus into helping develop people into breakthrough leaders. He outlines some of the aspects that define a true breakthrough leader - in and out of the agency space. Steve believes that everyone on the team has the ability to be a creative force for good and how that can help a recruitment team can lean into raw talent of candidates. He believes there’s no better way to build the leaders of tomorrow than by asking them to “give things a think” and encourage them to be curious so they can learn to be brave.
Steve Jeffreys spent 18 years in marketing agencies leading client relationships across Financial Services, Telecoms, Retail and Not-for-profit. Through this, he found that his passion lay with connecting with and developing people - something he now does full time in his work helping people in their first step up into leadership - in the marketing industry and beyond.
Episode 039 Transcript
[00:00:00] Steve Jeffreys: Welcome to Bite Sized Agency Briefs, a webinar series that packs a ton of important agency information on one topic from one expert into a 25 minute brief. Why 25 minutes? Because who has the attention span for much more these days? And you can squeeze in a listen between meetings with time for a bathroom break or coffee refill before your next meeting.
[00:00:28] Steve Guberman: Thanks for tuning in. This is Byte- sized Agency Briefs. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsight, where I coach agency owners to build the agency of their dreams. Uh, my guest today is Steve Jeffries. He's joining me from across the pond where he is a professional breakthrough coach at Your Shift.
[00:00:43] Steve Guberman: Uh, he helps people step up into leadership in the marketing industry and beyond. Uh, thanks for joining me, Steve. How are you today?
[00:00:52] Steve Jeffreys: Thanks very much, Steve. I'm very well, thank you. Very well. Enjoying the English summertime.
[00:00:57] Steve Guberman: The English summertime. Awesome. Uh, here in New Jersey [00:01:00] summertime, it is wicked humid and pretty nasty.
[00:01:03] Steve Guberman: So, um, I think the fact that we broke the world record of the hottest day on earth yesterday makes sense for what we're feeling here. Oh,
[00:01:12] Steve Jeffreys: wow. Well, I'm nowhere near that level, but, um, it's, it's good nonetheless, yeah.
[00:01:18] Steve Guberman: So, let's dig in, man. Tell me about, about your shift personally, but then what led you, your shift to lead to your shift?
[00:01:25] Steve Guberman: We can kind of inceptionize that. Um, le jour. So, background that lead, led to you launching your shift and what's your shift all about?
[00:01:34] Steve Jeffreys: Yeah, of course. Um, so, I, uh, I was an ad man. For 18 years in in London agencies on that was both big networked agencies and smaller shops as well. Um, I'm a suit by trade, and I worked my way through the ranks and, you know, did all of the things which I'm sure transcend.
[00:01:56] Steve Jeffreys: Across the pond, as you say. And, um, and I absolutely loved it. It [00:02:00] was a fantastic career to have. I learned loads. I experienced loads. I met my wife there and, um, worked on some terrific brands with some terrific agencies. Great people. So, so many pluses and I, um, got to senior leadership positions, um, managing large teams and leading large clients with big budgets, which was all great.
[00:02:26] Steve Jeffreys: And all the reasons I went into it. Um, but then I, I kind of got to a point where I reached diminishing returns and I thought, well, actually. There is probably something else I'd like to do. I didn't quite know what it was and the pandemic came around and like for many people accelerated things for me and long story short.
[00:02:46] Steve Jeffreys: Um, I decided to focus in on something that I'm very passionate about, which is. developing people, but developing people in a way that they can find things about themselves, which you didn't previously know, and bring those [00:03:00] to the fore. Uh, and obviously my agency experience lends itself well to that, given the places I've been and the teams I've led.
[00:03:06] Steve Jeffreys: Um, but what I've learned is that that transcends, as you said, beyond the agency sector to a variety of businesses, people are people at the end of the day. And that's what I now do. So I decided to focus in specifically on the area of, of, um, kind of breakthrough leadership because That was the shift I found the hardest to do when it becomes much less about what you do and it becomes much more about who you influence and how you do it.
[00:03:31] Steve Jeffreys: And with the business experience behind me and the lessons I've learned, I thought, well, I've got that credibility base to be able to do that. And, um, it is a more underrepresented part of the coaching world. Um, so I thought I'd go for it and that's where I'm building my business and it's going well so far.
[00:03:48] Steve Jeffreys: So
[00:03:50] Steve Guberman: do you think there's a distinction between? Leadership in general and what breakthrough leadership is that you focus on.
[00:03:59] Steve Jeffreys: I think [00:04:00] there is. And I think the main thing for me is when you come into a leadership position. Firstly, no one prepares you for it. And secondly, you've kind of got to find your own wings and find your own way of doing things.
[00:04:13] Steve Jeffreys: And What I found was having time and space to be able to do that, which, you know, you don't often get, in fact, you rarely get, is really important. Um, and I was lucky enough when I went through, uh, into Breakthrough Leadership to have a supportive environment in which to do that. I benefited from some coaching myself and it enabled me to think in different ways, think laterally about what I was really good at, stuff I wasn't so good at, and the things I needed to improve on, but also enabled me to look at, right, what is it that the organization needs?
[00:04:47] Steve Jeffreys: And how can I bring the best of myself to do that so that everything's in the right mold? So I think it's an important point to get right, because if you do get it right, then you set yourself up well for the future. [00:05:00] And it gives you a layer of awareness, which I'm not to say that you won't get it otherwise, but it certainly gives you a jump start to get that.
[00:05:07] Steve Jeffreys: And you kind of get the opportunity to repackage yourself, um, for for now and the future. So,
[00:05:14] Steve Guberman: so, like, what do you define as breakthrough leadership? Is it when when a leader sees somebody? Down the ranks that they can pull up into leader leadership role and need to train them and guide them and mold them and, you know, be a mentor for them.
[00:05:30] Steve Guberman: Or am I misconstruing that
[00:05:32] Steve Jeffreys: I say it? Well, I think it is that, but I think it's um, I regard breakthrough leadership is when your sphere of influence becomes. It's not just kind of looking down and kind of leading a group of people, but it's being accountable to those above. And it's then understanding what the landscape above you looks like, what the landscape Beside of you looks like and where and where peers play in and where it becomes about performing as part of a high functioning team to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.
[00:05:57] Steve Jeffreys: So I think. [00:06:00] I regard breakthrough leadership as being slightly less linear than it otherwise would be. So, I mean, if you're managing people, you're managing people, you, you, you, you know, this is reducing it to its essence, but you're managing specific tasks, you're managing specific people. Whereas I think breakthrough leadership is where, yeah, you do that, but then you also do a load of other stuff around the sides.
[00:06:19] Steve Jeffreys: And you've got to think about a few moves ahead. You've got to think about what other industries are doing. You've got to think about what clients are doing. And there's various different things that you have to get in the right. Blend to be able to get right. And that's hard to do. Interesting.
And
[00:06:34] Steve Guberman: do you think that's so obviously that's not specific to the marketing industry, like you said, people are people.
[00:06:39] Steve Guberman: And so that sort of breakthrough leadership occurs in all industries. But do you think it's nuanced in the ad space in marketing and just in agencies in general, or is it not that nuanced?
[00:06:54] Steve Jeffreys: I think it's more acute in the agency environment. And I say that because, um, [00:07:00] you know, You're an agency man yourself, so you know that clients don't rest on their laurels and you know, the next new business opportunities just around the corner.
[00:07:09] Steve Jeffreys: That's not to say that other businesses aren't as fast paced, but I think given the advertising industry, it's so cut throat that it's And you've got to be able to quickly pivot and change to meet that need. So I think it becomes all the more important to get right within an agency environment. Um, and not least because, you know, agency A can be so different to agency B and different again to agency C and all of those different kinds of things that go on.
[00:07:37] Steve Jeffreys: And there's lots of component parts which go into it. So I think. It's kind of, you know, without sounding too lofty, it's kind of managing those intangibles that, that come with it and getting those in the right order, um, to, to be able to do it. Now, I don't have the experience of other industries to know if that's exclusive to the advertising industry, but certainly my [00:08:00] experience of it is, you know, when I think about my agency days, be they in networked or, or smaller shops, um, You know, it's for every single day is full on.
[00:08:10] Steve Jeffreys: It's pedal to the metal. It's now, now, now it's clients want stuff yesterday. It's okay. We've got to change, switch the focus of the scope or whatever it might be. Stuff happens at a hundred miles an hour and you've kind of gotten to gear yourself up to meet that challenge.
[00:08:23] Steve Guberman: So no, so knowing that the, the typical agency culture is that like a hundred miles an hour, 12 days a week, 50 hours a day, chaos, uh, on top of chaos, only to see, you know, when something lands and you execute.
[00:08:40] Steve Guberman: An amazing campaign. You get the results in the client out of boys. You, um, what are some of those, I guess, characteristics or DNA elements that leadership should look for to kind of help that internal growth, you know, finding people that they want to promote in that, in that [00:09:00] environment. And you talk about lateral recruitment, you know, what, what, what should people be looking for?
[00:09:05] Steve Jeffreys: Yeah. Um, that's a, that's a big question and certainly one which I've seen go. I've seen answered in a couple of different ways. I think the best way to probably answer that is, uh, as you said, their lateral recruitment by that, I mean, you, you recruit for. You recruit for a behavior as opposed to a role and you recruit for certain characteristics that you want to see within, within the business.
[00:09:29] Steve Jeffreys: I think one of the things that I've heard many agency people talk about is making sure that creativity runs throughout the entire business. It's not the preserve of the creative department, the strategists and the suits and the, you know, the, the data bots, everyone should have creative with a small C in there.
[00:09:44] Steve Jeffreys: Um, and I think that's crucially important because. You want people that can think for themselves. You want people that are as invested in the agency products and the clients as you are, not just because those people could be the, you know, the future leaders of [00:10:00] tomorrow, but because agency life is such that client a or client B can turn around tomorrow and say, do you know what?
[00:10:06] Steve Jeffreys: I found someone that can do it quicker, faster, cheaper. What are better, whatever. And you've got to find new and different ways to do things. So I think you need that speed of thought. You need that entrepreneurialism to work at each and every level to do that. Um, and I think one of the things when I talk about recruiting laterally is, you know, think beyond the job descriptions because yes, you can, you can recruit for a job description.
[00:10:31] Steve Jeffreys: You can put it through a hopper and it will say yes, this candidate is the best possible person. But I've always been very interested in what motivates this person. How. hungry are they to succeed? You know, where have they been before? What's their background? Like all of those kinds of things, which I think you can hint at someone, what ambition they have, you know, what, what do they know about the industry already?
[00:10:51] Steve Jeffreys: Are they already thinking a few moves ahead? Things like that. Not to say that you need to recruit superstars at every point, but kind of having some of those things, [00:11:00] which, you been in those, some of those interviews where you interview someone and you think. Do you know what? They've got something about them.
[00:11:06] Steve Jeffreys: They might not be the perfect fit for this job, but they're good. Gut feel tells me I should probably get them in. Now I've also done that and it gone wrong. So, um, it's not, it's not a faultless formula, but I think that's something that's really key and it's quite a hard thing to get right, I'd say.
[00:11:22] Steve Guberman: But that also kind of points to a lot of recruiters, HR leaders, whatever will say, let's hire for
[00:11:30] Steve Guberman: Their raw talents and we can train them on the skills or the, you know, the tactical aspects of what their role might be raw talent characteristics, just a really good person. Like, I'm not going to hire a really good person to fill a role if they don't have the talent and skills to execute. But if, but if they've got, if they're a good person and they've got the talent, but they don't really have, they don't know our systems or whatever those things are like, that's all trainable stuff.
[00:11:58] Steve Guberman: So that's the kind of person you're talking about. Right. [00:12:00] Don't let them go, bring them in, mentor them, help, help them elevate, you know, what their craft really is about and everybody benefits
[00:12:08] Steve Jeffreys: there, right? Absolutely, exactly that. I mean, not everyone can pick stuff up in exactly the same way. What I always found quite interesting was, and this is probably more in the larger agencies than the small, but you say you get someone in as a junior suit.
[00:12:22] Steve Jeffreys: Actually, you might quickly find out or they might quickly find out. They're more suited to planning because their brain works in a particular way, or they're not so good with clients and likewise, do you know what? That person has brilliant ideas. They work superbly with a copyright or whatever it might be, and you kind of get them in as a almost like a, an aggregate level, and then you work out where they best fit.
[00:12:42] Steve Jeffreys: And I know, you know, some agencies do do that, but I've always been quite interested in that. I, um, You know, I saw friends of mine do exactly that leap. I don't think I've ever seen anyone go into account handling after it, but, um, I've certainly seen it work from account handling into other [00:13:00] areas. So make it that what you will.
[00:13:01] Steve Jeffreys: Yeah.
[00:13:02] Steve Guberman: But I also love that you say, listen, everybody should have that kind of creativity with a small C in part of what their DNA is. So many people are like, Oh, you know, you work in the marketing industry. I'm the most uncreative person. And when you find people that can approach their job, to me, all it means is Like, can you think outside the box, you know, not to use a cliche phrase, but it, it fits like an engineer is typically not a very creative person, no matter how you define the word creative, because they are very process driven.
[00:13:32] Steve Guberman: They're very linear. They're very, you know, everything is black and white, but if you can find just a little bit outside the lines of that drawing, there's, there's the air of creativity. And like you said, account management, biz dev, like bring those people into the fold because they might be able to see things from a different perspective and help.
[00:13:51] Steve Guberman: You know, kind of stoked the creative fires. Um, so I think everybody on the team should have that, you know, on some level.
[00:13:58] Steve Jeffreys: Yeah, you agree. Yeah, [00:14:00] no, absolutely. And I think one of the things that, um, you know, came to mind, um, when you were talking about that was ask big questions of people. And, you know, set them, set them a big challenge, set them something which at face value they're going to say, well, I can't solve that.
[00:14:16] Steve Jeffreys: You think? Well, yeah, go for it. Have a think about it. Look at the edges of it. Involve other people and kind of leave it up to someone's, um. uh, ingenuity to figure out the best way around a problem. Not everyone will do it, but I think it, it, it kind of encourages people to go beyond their comfort zone to do that.
[00:14:34] Steve Jeffreys: And, you know, you can do that within the confines of a certain brief. You can do it within a, you know, probably the most vulnerable leaders will say, do you know what, I've got a certain view of how things are operating, but I would really value. This group of people telling me another point of view and being open to what that tells them.
[00:14:53] Steve Jeffreys: And I think that is a, that's a, I think a very healthy and a very modern thing to do, and certainly something that should be encouraged. [00:15:00] Um, but B I think it's needed. Cause if you want people to be the leaders of tomorrow, there's, there's no better way to do that than, um, you know, throwing them, uh, uh, a chassis of a car and seeing how they build it effectively, you
[00:15:15] Steve Guberman: think that that's, that's best suited, I guess.
[00:15:19] Steve Guberman: What's the phrase, like unilaterally, like open to anybody or, or from a upper leadership pushing it down to, uh, subordinates. I hate to use that word, but you know, people down, down the ranks that say, Hey, let's see if you can rise to the challenge, like in what direction should that
[00:15:35] Steve Jeffreys: flow? I think, I think, to be honest with you, the culture starts at the top, right?
[00:15:40] Steve Jeffreys: So I think the culture of that should start with the, and the, the leadership model of the senior leaders rather should model that behavior. Um, but then the culture should always be, you know, what, if you've got a problem, see how, see different points of view and that should kind of filter down. So I kind of see it as working each and every way.
[00:15:57] Steve Jeffreys: I think it takes a brave company or brave agency to be able to [00:16:00] do that. Um, I don't know if that maybe lends itself more to larger rather than smaller or smaller to larger, not really sure, but I think it, it kind of needs. Um. A good level of, uh, vulnerability and good, good level of openness to be able to do that and
[00:16:18] Steve Guberman: do it.
[00:16:18] Steve Guberman: Well, yeah, I like that. You mentioned brave. I, you know, I don't necessarily think of large agencies as brave. I feel like it could be way wrong. I don't have any experience there. Um, but I, I, I see them as just large machines. Uh, too many layers and too many redundancies and too many missed, missed, uh, missed talent opportunities.
[00:16:43] Steve Guberman: And I just like, that's where people maybe cut their teeth and learn how crappy it can be. And then find like a small to medium sized agency and like really thrive. But I think that brave part is, is super valuable on the smaller, more nimble size. We're like, we're not, we're not a great fit for this, but we're [00:17:00] going to go for it.
[00:17:00] Steve Guberman: And we're going to bring everybody in to ask those big questions like you talked about so that we can. Raise up to the next bar. Do you know what I mean? Like, so, so I think the bravery part maybe applies on the larger agency size, but I see it on the, you know, midsize and below, you know, those, those BNC level agencies where if they want to really make a difference, if they really want to win those, those contracts, they've got to take a big shot and put it all on the line.
[00:17:29] Steve Jeffreys: Um, I do think, I do think you're right. And that's a good reflection, um, to, to counsel with Steve. I think that, um. You know, having been in larger agencies, I got loads from it, so I can't, I can't deny that, but there's more places to hide. And I think that's a, that's a key thing. Um, there's more places to hide.
[00:17:48] Steve Jeffreys: There's, as you said, there's more layers, there's more layers to sell to clients, all those kind of things, which, which we know. And as a result of that, I think what, what I certainly found was the, you know, you kind of got your [00:18:00] show ponies out for the show pony events. And. You know, that's not new. We all know that that often happens, but that kind of stifles those beneath and people probably hide a little bit more because of it.
[00:18:10] Steve Jeffreys: Um, so I do think you're right. Um, and actually having gone from a larger to a smaller that that is absolutely right. And I think certainly when I first started that move, that was hard because I've probably been, um. Incubated within a system that, um, it had so much machinery around it. You had, you know, there was a job for this.
[00:18:32] Steve Jeffreys: It was a job for that. You had a department for this department for that. And then all of a sudden, hang on, there's this cred stack that needs. Together. Oh, we don't have a cred stuff, right? Okay. Better create a cred stack. And then there's no, you know, there's no big new business departments call on or anything like that.
[00:18:46] Steve Jeffreys: You've got to create it and you can't do it. Um, but again, it just needs you to think laterally that word again. And, um, I know that you can do it.
[00:18:55] Steve Guberman: Yeah. You also talk a lot about like encouraging failure and like taking a [00:19:00] risk and like, what's the value in that, in, in pushing people through leadership roles.
[00:19:08] Steve Jeffreys: So I think. Certainly, and I say this from my own experience as well, when I first went into a senior leadership role, I was scared to make certain decisions because I was worried that I was going to bolt it up, for want of a better phrase. And I think sometimes it's just best to say, you know what, try it, if it works, brilliant.
[00:19:29] Steve Jeffreys: If it doesn't, Doesn't matter. And you know what? We'll learn something or we'll get to go in another direction. I think that's really, really healthy. Uh, I think I wish I'd have encouraged that more when, when I was, um, in that, uh, industry. I don't think I did enough of that. I think it's only in retrospect that I've seen that and the value in doing that.
[00:19:48] Steve Jeffreys: Um, and possibly because I know I've been out of the agency world now for a couple of years, but. Things have moved on a lot in that time, not least with, with COVID and, um, you know, all of the, [00:20:00] the, the well publicized, um, benefits and, and drawbacks of remote work where people, yes, they can hide, but also people can get scared and lonely.
[00:20:09] Steve Jeffreys: So I think it's coming to sharp focus. Um, I think again to the point we were talking about earlier, it takes a brave leader to be able to say that and the direction for that is set right at the top. So if those behaviors are modeled and celebrated, um, then they're brilliant. And I think that's great. And if I think now to.
[00:20:29] Steve Jeffreys: Some of the, you know, the all hands meetings or the town halls or all agency meetings, call them what you want. Um, where, you know, you get that rose tinted view of this is amazing. We're hitting these targets, we're hitting those targets, actually really refreshing thing could be, do you know what, there's a load of stuff we haven't got right.
[00:20:47] Steve Jeffreys: At all levels. These are some of those things. This is what we've learned to kind of give that permission that it's okay to do so. Yeah. Um, I wish I'd said that at the time when I was in an agency. That would have been a great idea. But now you [00:21:00] can still time. Yeah, I can.
[00:21:03] Steve Guberman: And, and I think it's important, you know, like push people to try new things, fail fast, learn from the failures.
[00:21:10] Steve Guberman: Failure is not a bad thing, you know, and I think that that's becoming more and more like a cultural norm that like, you know, there's books about it, there's podcasts about it, there's, you know, tons and tons of, uh, influencers that that's their shtick and, and it's a good shtick. I like it, um, especially in our industry, but I think in any industry where you need to innovate and think fast on your feet, like try something if it doesn't work.
[00:21:33] Steve Guberman: What worked, what didn't work from it. Like there's lessons in all of that stuff. So yeah, I love that just as a, as a, as a principal to kind of work by and elevate. Potential leaders by see how they respond to the ability to fail fast or do they like just drown in the failure?
[00:21:50] Steve Jeffreys: Indeed as you were saying that I thought well actually the new generation coming into the workforce gen Z I mean, they're hopefully primed for exactly this.
[00:21:58] Steve Jeffreys: There are a lot more. I mean, I'm [00:22:00] on the cusp of Gen X and Millennials. So You know, the new people coming through into the workplace, they're very brave, they're very forthright, uh, they are very open, uh, no, all very good things. And I think, I think the future of leadership, the future of agency leadership, the future of agency models is going to be quite interesting as they come through the ranks.
[00:22:23] Steve Jeffreys: I think that will be one to Yeah.
[00:22:26] Steve Guberman: Yeah, I agree. Um, a lot of talent. I think that the way that, um, newer and younger generations are being brought into the workforce and how we can tap into their skills and their passions and the things that are near and dear to their heart is, is exciting to watch for.
[00:22:41] Steve Guberman: So, uh, I want to spend the next couple minutes, a couple of random rapid fire questions for you. Um, unrelated to your shift. But maybe still inspired by your shift, so please do.
[00:22:52] Steve Jeffreys: I'm gonna, I'm wondering what you're gonna hit me with now. Better get ready for this. What, what[00:23:00]
[00:23:01] Steve Guberman: book or audio book or show or something that you just can't get enough of these days?
[00:23:06] Steve Jeffreys: Oh, goodness me. Um, a show, well, I'll tell you what I. binged on Ted Lasso and I'm late to the party on that one. Um, I can't remember who mentioned it to me, but for what I think it's because I didn't have Apple TV and I loved it face value just for the pure mindless entertainment of it all.
[00:23:26] Steve Jeffreys: Um, and, and I, and I love that because I think that for so long, I haven't watched something that I've genuinely escaped into and I'm a big football fan, soccer fan myself. So, um, you know, that, that really helps and, you know, he's a very engaging character. So, so that was good. As for, as for book, um, I'm reading one at the moment, which is, I'm gonna, forgive me, I'm gonna try and get the title of this right.
[00:23:49] Steve Jeffreys: Um, it's by a lady I met on, on Lunch Club, actually. Um, and it's called, um, Leaving My Wallet on the Car Roof. Uh, and I've, I've [00:24:00] massively bastardized that title because I can't remember quite what it is off the top of my head. Um, and that is all about some of the, Pivotal kind of sliding doors moments that you get when you are younger, when you're becoming a leader, where you learn from your experiences, effectively failing quickly, learning from it and going again, it's by a lady called Dan drummy.
[00:24:19] Steve Jeffreys: Um, maybe for the, for the show notes, if you provide some of those, then I'll, I'll, I'll get the title, but I think it's, I left my wallet in the car. It's really good. It's really engaging. It's really funny. Uh, and it talks about getting lessons from the world of business, from the world of. Um, and from generally being a digital nomad and kind of going here, there and everywhere and examples are drawn from each of those.
[00:24:40] Steve Jeffreys: And I think what I found so refreshing about that is it wasn't one dimensional and it enabled. You know, you to relate from different scenarios. And I think it made the learning from all of it a lot sharper and a lot richer as a result. So she'll kill me now for not having me not having remembered the precise name of the book.
[00:24:58] Steve Jeffreys: No,
[00:24:59] Steve Guberman: I apologize. [00:25:00] She'll thank you. Once we link to it in the droves of people that listen to this, we'll link over to it and her book sales will just go through the roof. So she'll be eternally grateful for it.
[00:25:08] Steve Jeffreys: Excellent. Yeah, I expect a hefty royalty payment off the back of that. Exactly.
[00:25:13] Steve Guberman: Uh, and then finally, what's a tool, digital or physical or otherwise, that you've recently kind of put into your life that you've found just totally invaluable?
[00:25:23] Steve Jeffreys: Uh, it's going to be one which I swear by and it's a, it's a physical tool and it is just inserting a half an hour fire break into my diary just to go for a run. And I do that because I, you know, I've, I've got a nice office here. It's great. We're in a nice part of the world, but my thinking gets quite stale quite quickly if I don't freshen it up.
[00:25:47] Steve Jeffreys: And if I do that, I'll go out into the fields. I'll think, I'll. I know I won't take anything out with me. I'll get new ideas. I'll get, you know, the, the deck I'm building suddenly becomes clear. All of those kinds of things, you know, well worn themes, [00:26:00] but it's true. It works for me. I come back, might be a bit sweatier, but I'm a lot clearer in the head and, um, it gives me a new jolt of energy.
[00:26:08] Steve Jeffreys: And I have to keep reminding myself to do that because some days, like yesterday, for example, I was really tired and I thought, you know what? I just can't be arsed. Um, and I did do it and it helps and it gave me a new jolt. So that's what I swear by. I love
[00:26:21] Steve Guberman: that. Time blocking, the ability to step away from the screen, go get the endorphins going.
[00:26:26] Steve Guberman: Get the sweat going, get a fresh air, you know, fresh perspective, some fresh air, uh, big fan of that myself. So, Jeff, uh, Steve, uh, thank you so much for your time today. You can call me Jeff, that's fine. All
[00:26:37] Steve Jeffreys: I want to say
[00:26:37] Steve Guberman: is bye. It's funny, my brother's name is Jeff and so Steve and Jeff and your name just kind of busted in my brain, but, uh, I'm grateful for your time and your experience and your wisdom and your knowledge.
[00:26:46] Steve Guberman: So thank you for spending time with us today.
[00:26:49] Steve Jeffreys: No problem. Thank you for having
[00:26:54] Steve Jeffreys: me. Thanks again for tuning in to Bite Sized Agency Briefs. As always, if you found [00:27:00] value in this episode, chances are someone else will too, so please share it with your network. Also, if you know someone with expert knowledge on a topic that agency owners would love, drop me a note and let's get them on.
[00:27:12] Steve Jeffreys: Finally, find someone to hug today.